Curse

Bobby2 · Aug 28, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

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Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

A major wouldn't hurt if he was running survior and fortitude mods.

It kinda would. I mean, it does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

Not a fan of using 2 skills for the same effect I can get from one. But this combo isn't half bad. Also didn't the AoD build use [[shock] as a main kd? Never remember seeing [[iron palm] in it.

It didn't. It ran [[Horns of the Ox], which of course didn't suck back then. [[Shock] was used when the KD condition hadn't been met... same principle.

Also, using [[Shock] doesn't break up a chain in progress, which counts for a helluva lot.

@ Taisayacho: replacing [[Falling Spider] with [[Falling Lotus Strike] would solve any energy issues you may encounter trying to keep your engine going, so to speak.

Tyla · Aug 28, 2008, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring

Bulls is a good skill just not for sins imo.

I disagree. The ability to use this skill offensively and defensively is what makes it shine. It might be only a little damage, but this skill can be devastating in the right situations regardless of what you're doing. You can defend your Monks, or force a kill on someone who's fleeing / kiting to move into a spike leaving your enemy vunerable for the most part for 2 seconds.

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Not a fan of using 2 skills for the same effect I can get from one. But this combo isn't half bad. Also didn't the AoD build use Shock as a main kd?Never remember seeing Iron Palm in it.

I think that Shock was actually used as a backup KD just encase you couldn't get the full combo up by means of HoTo, and as utility the same way Bull's is opperated. I just prefer Bull's as I have IAS skills open to me and I can use it every 10 seconds, as opposed to the exhaustion condition on Shock.

RavagerOfDreams · Aug 28, 2008, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Or we could just run the moebius chains that work w/o KD's perfectly well those r gud. You could even bring HoTO if you really have a KD Fetish [horns of the ox] + [death blossom] does some serious work.

I'm confused why you would want to run this build maybe I'm missing something but it seems that [leaping mantis sting] -> [exhausting assault] accomplishes what your first 3 skills do (snare, interrupt) and yet do it with less energy and have better synergies with moebius.

[leaping mantis sting] [exhausting assault] [moebius strike] [death blossom] [horns of the ox] [frenzy] [dash] [critical eye]

^TBH

Bowstring Badass · Aug 28, 2008, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Im thinking of the wrong AoD combo then.

You guys are right. HoTo was the main kd.

Ravager does make a good point....

Tyla · Aug 28, 2008, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

[leaping mantis sting] [exhausting assault] [moebius strike] [death blossom] [horns of the ox] [frenzy] [dash] [critical eye]

^TBH

Things I would change in that bar are Crit Eye for Wild Blow, and Frenzy for Flurry. Reasons? You should have enough energy management for the usual spammage, and since it autocrits while being unblockable it's a pretty effective skill, especially against certain stances. Flurry also allows me to be in perma-IAS without being under double damage, which is really consequential on anything compared to a Warrior or Paragon.

RavagerOfDreams · Aug 28, 2008, 01:26 AM // 01:26

critical eye is sorta optional you can take whatever you feel like was my HB build to be honest with you ^_______________^. Frenzy is also switchable with flurry but honestly tyla i expected you to be strong and brave and cancel stance like all the cool kids...

Tyla · Aug 28, 2008, 01:39 AM // 01:39

As I said, I'd use Flurry over Frenzy for the permanently maintainable IAS. The damage reduction only applies to the daggers' inherant damage, which makes it far more favourable than Frenzy.

RavagerOfDreams · Aug 28, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

As I said, I'd use Flurry over Frenzy for the permanently maintainable IAS. The damage reduction only applies to the daggers' inherant damage, which makes it far more favourable than Frenzy.

last time i checked frenzy is permanently maintainable and the ability to auto attack for some actual damage allows you to time your HoTO better while still keep some damage output. Honestly I used to run Flurry constantly in AB/HB but then I started to learn how to Interrupt using HoTO and so I've become pro frenzy...again all preference but thats my reasoning behind it.

snaek · Aug 28, 2008, 02:09 AM // 02:09

[bull's strike] isnt as good on a sin as it is on a war for many reasons

its conditional...so if to start ur chain u need a kd
u have to wait for ur opponent to move
a sins auto-attack isnt as strong as a war's
and theres no use for gaining adren from auto-attacking

but its decent if u dun rely on it to start ur attack chain

which is why shock is good
its a guaranteed kd
so u can start ur chain when -you- decide to
not when ur opponent leaves an opening (which may be never)

[shock] is used with [aura of displacement] for skill compression
[iron palm] would need a condition or hex to work, therefore takin up an extra skill slot
which is why u see it with [shadow prison] often (also cuz its in teh same attrib line)

----

imo, pressure sins r weak

i'd rather execute a 4s spike, followed by 15s of auto-attacking/kiting
rather than an 12s spike, followed by **s of moebius/db spamming

which is why op's build fails...
its like a 12s spike
but as well it has a lot of "conditionals" that give it many chances to fail the attack chain
and since its so slow...teh enemy has plenty of time to react

ravager's build is better
the kd lock from the moebius/horns is decent
but i still wouldnt run it
theres jus no dmg, and takes forever to drop a target

Tyla · Aug 28, 2008, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

last time i checked frenzy is permanently maintainable

You can't use Frenzy under even the slightest amount of pressure on a 'Sin.

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and the ability to auto attack for some actual damage allows you to time your HoTO better while still keep some damage output.

Sorry, but most of the damage doesn't come from the daggers, but the attack skills.

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Honestly I used to run Flurry constantly in AB/HB but then I started to learn how to Interrupt using HoTO and so I've become pro frenzy.

The idea for the HoTo / Moebius combo is to knocklock, more efficiently under an IAS. If there are adjacent enemies, you start using Death Blossom and punish them for it, the same way you punish splitting up. If you can't use Frenzy under pressure, you're not nearly as efficient as you could be. The base damage from daggers isn't as strong as you make it out to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaek

Bull's strike isnt as good on a sin as it is on a war for many reasons

its conditional...so if to start ur chain u need a kd
u have to wait for ur opponent to move
a sins auto-attack isnt as strong as a war's
and theres no use for gaining adren from auto-attacking

but its decent if u dun rely on it to start ur attack chain

which is why shock is good
its a guaranteed kd
so u can start ur chain when -you- decide to
not when ur opponent leaves an opening (which may be never)

You can't rely wholeheartedly on Bull's Strike for your chain unless the people you're playing against are extremely predictable. The thing about Bull's is it allows you to take strong utility without sacrificing your ability to take an IAS without using up your elite. Not to mention you can use it freely since it doesn't cause exhaustion.

RavagerOfDreams · Aug 28, 2008, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

You can't use Frenzy under even the slightest amount of pressure on a 'Sin.

You can't on a warrior either really whats your point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Sorry, but most of the damage doesn't come from the daggers, but the attack skills.

No shit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

The idea for the HoTo / Moebius combo is to knocklock, more efficiently under an IAS. If there are adjacent enemies, you start using Death Blossom and punish them for it, the same way you punish splitting up. If you can't use Frenzy under pressure, you're not nearly as efficient as you could be. The base damage from daggers isn't as strong as you make it out to be.

Knock locking with HoTO is a good strategy against idiots this is true. However if you ever expect to kill a monk they will have some form of gay stance shit to totally RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up your knock lock. So knock locking isn't as effective as you make it out to be. Damage output from daggers isn't as good as an ax but criticals + double strikes on your vamp set can do some pressure and force the monk to cast at which point you knock him on his ass. During your mindless MS/DB spam you might be on DB when you need to interrupt (i.e gaurdian/WoH cast) and you won't be able to do anything about it. So you can't always be MS/DB'ing away unfortunately its not as easy as PvE.I know very few people stupid enough to cast against a sin whose doing -25% damage hence the use of Frenzy to be able to disrupt effectively.

As per the whole shrine capping thing. A sin running the build i posted shouldn't cap a shrine alone. Even with flurry eles/necro would rock your shit faster then you could blink.

Tyla · Aug 28, 2008, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

You can't on a warrior either really whats your point?

Actually, you can. The only time you can't is during heavy pressure or when you're being spiked.

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Knock locking with HoTO is a good strategy against idiots this is true. However if you ever expect to kill a monk they will have some form of gay stance shit to totally RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up your knock lock. So knock locking isn't as effective as you make it out to be.

Then in this case how would any other 'Sin be able to do it, apart from the Shattering Assault 'Sin?

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Damage output from daggers isn't as good as an ax but criticals + double strikes on your vamp set can do some pressure and force the monk to cast at which point you knock him on his ass.

You can reflex 1s casts at a .88 cast time?

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During your mindless MS/DB spam you might be on DB when you need to interrupt (i.e gaurdian/WoH cast) and you won't be able to do anything about it.

You can't reflex WoH at all unless you're running some more instanced interrupt. Not to mention you can MS -> DB -> HoTo, in which case if you're seeing people move out of adjacent range again switch to chaining HoTo again.

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So you can't always be MS/DB'ing away unfortunately its not as easy as PvE.I know very few people stupid enough to cast against a sin whose doing -25% damage hence the use of Frenzy to be able to disrupt effectively.

The -25% on Flurry only applies to base damage. And the players in AB are pretty stupid, you know.

Quote:

As per the whole shrine capping thing. A sin running the build i posted shouldn't cap a shrine alone. Even with flurry eles/necro would rock your shit faster then you could blink.

This is true, considering Eles have a spike and Necros kill your DPS with Faintheartedness.

RavagerOfDreams · Aug 28, 2008, 02:56 AM // 02:56

I don't feel like arguing anymore tbh forums are getting more boring every day and arguing just makes me more tired then I already am so....

Do whatever the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO you want to Tyla I honestly couldn't care less.

Bobby2 · Aug 28, 2008, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Arguing between Frenzy and Flurry in a Sin build that doesn't spike? C'mon Rav

[build prof=A/E dagger=12+1+1 critical=12+1 air=2 earth=2][Shock][falling lotus strike][death blossom][moebius strike][horns of the ox][grasping earth][shadow walk][dash][/build]
or if you really want to push pressure damage:
[build prof=A/E dagger=12+1+1 critical=8 air=10][Shock][falling lotus strike][death blossom][moebius strike][horns of the ox][conjure lightning][critical eye][dash][/build]
not forgetting to use FLS for refills after HotO of course.

Get some rest.

RavagerOfDreams · Aug 28, 2008, 03:17 AM // 03:17

I'll get a lot I'm done with these forums and I quit guildwars along time ago

pce

X Cytherea X · Aug 28, 2008, 10:47 AM // 10:47

here is a build with knocklock that RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin hurts as well

BRUTAL STAMPEDE
[build prof=A/ dagger=12+1+2 critical=12+1 deadly=3][enduring toxin][black mantis thrust][lotus strike][twisting fangs][moebius strike][trampling ox][/build]
use vamp daggers. have about 560 health 30 energy. i like to live on the edge a little with a major, but go minor if you're lame

2 free slots. take your pick. [mending touch] [dash] [flail] [remove hex] [resurrection signet] / whatever else you can think of

trample your target to death. i sometimes wish a monk would heal it so i can trample some more. if its health goes above 50% or cripple is removed, start over.

sadly, toxin is the last cheap, fast, low recharge, full range sin hex. but it does its job. you gotta run to your target and hit with black mantis tho. lotus for a big energy boost. twisting and trampling are interchangeable. this is so amazingly powerful, moebius will almost always recharge everything.

Light Aura · Aug 28, 2008, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

or if you really want to push pressure damage:
[build prof=A/E dagger=12+1+1 critical=8 air=10][Shock][falling lotus strike][death blossom][moebius strike][horns of the ox][conjure lightning][critical eye][dash][/build]
not forgetting to use FLS for refills after HotO of course.

Get some rest.

Quote, Buy, Print

it has everything that you were looking for in the build you had before just without blind and it has very nice knockdown,

also sometimes i replace [dash] with [death's charge] for a shadow step and a self-heal

snaek · Aug 28, 2008, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

[build prof=A/E dagger=12+1+1 critical=12+1 air=2 earth=2][Shock][falling lotus strike][death blossom][moebius strike][horns of the ox][grasping earth][shadow walk][dash][/build]

its important to note that [shock] & [grasping earth] bypass the recent "cant use attack skills for 1s" of [shadow walk]

[shadow walk] has been my main shadowstep skill post-aftercast nerf

illidan009 · Aug 28, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

OP's build is much too energy intensive...i know crit eye is supposed to be "energy management" but cmon that's a joke...it works with 5 energy sins skills but for ele spells it isnt sufficient. Plus after your spike you'll be left with no energy and probably nothing recharged...=death. Plus if one of your skills along the chain gets interrupted your whole build is screwd.

Bobby2 · Aug 28, 2008, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

its important to note that [shock] & [grasping earth] bypass the recent "cant use attack skills for 1s" of [shadow walk]

You, sir, understand.